Holy books: man-made vs. God-inspired

  male
Anicka_ | 16 Mar 2008 - 5:09pm

Is this a contradiction? If Holy books, whatever religion they belong to, were written by human beings who lived within a historical context, with political, social and personal factors that shaped their view of things, can they still be considered the word of God? Especially taking into account that, at least in some cases, they have been written by different people, in different periods, and subject to numerous modifications. How do you view holy books, more as a human creation or or as the word of God? If the latter, why?

__________________________

It is said human beings are complex. I say it's a complex challenge to be a human.


femalelh_no1fan | 16 March 2008 - 5:42pm

I don't think man-made holy books and God-inspired ones contradict each other because they are the same thing anyway.(you have to be inspired by something to write a book,in this case,god)I havent been able to find a concrete evidence that god exists yet and so maybe,the holy books have actually been written by wise (!) people of their age or like a new rumour,Moses has eaten a plant that causes ppl to see halucinations and written the Old Testement at that very time,thinking that s/he has seen a holy light.


__________________________

You think I'm strange because I'm different;I think you're strange because you're all the same

malejustjayhere | 16 March 2008 - 8:43pm

Yes, the Bible has 100's of translations and in many languages but God's inspired basic message is intact. 2Timothy 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

maleSkyPiercer | 16 March 2008 - 10:40pm

Our holy book is the sacred word of God. The revelations were brought to our Prophet through the archangel Gabriel the spirit of truth...

You (O Muhammad) was not a reader of any Scripture before it, nor did you write (such a Scripture) with your right hand, for then those who follow falsehood might (have a right) to doubt it.

The Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, was unlettered. It's an undeniable fact...

The style and eloquence of the book, the miraculous harmony is simply beyond comparison ! Neither it was poetry, nor it was rhymed prose...Among the unbelievers, we had some great orators and poets (the Pre-Islamic area) they weren't able to overcome their pride and arrogance and admit the divine origin of the book but they used to secretly listen to the prophet's recitals in the night. They labeled it as something magical. It's a literary masterpiece with perfect rhythm, music...

We have also the mathematic miracles in the book. Too much to quote them all. Too much to be a coincidence. Everything seems to be in the right place with a couple of stunning links between the verses.


__________________________

Je grimperai sur l'espace lumineux,
Je traverserai l'esprit de la terre,
Je cheminerai dans la lumière
Et j'atteindrai l'étoile.

maleONE | 16 March 2008 - 10:59pm

Throughout the ages there have always been men or women who have attained to a higher level of understanding or consciousness. These people must have written or shared some of their understanding and then somebody writes it down. It does not mean that they wanted to compile it and call it a "holy book". A book is just a dead thing. Only humans or living things can be considered as "holy". Whatsoever is written in a book is already old and stale and the original writer (s) no longer exists. His/her experience can no longer be known.
This has caused a lot of problems because most people will take what is written as a fact and then quote it like a parrot. They will say that it is the 'word of God' without having any personal experience or realization of what or who God really is. Unless you realize yourself as God, how can you possibly know what the truth really is? Unless you become a Christ or a Mohammad, how can you know what their reality was?
Today, thousands of books are being written by enlightened beings. There are thousands of videos and audios so you can have an actual experience of them. Still, unless you know it of yourself you will end up quoting them or becoming a follower. These people never say that their words are 'holy'. They know the danger of their words becoming another religion so they avoid giving any doctrines or teachings that have to be believed in and followed.
In the end it is only you (or I) who can be holy. Truth is knowing not believing. Truth is the inner scripture not some outer written scripture.


__________________________

"Once you accept all your responsibilities in its totality,
you become mature.
You stop throwing tantrums and
you stop seeking messiahs.
Then there is no need for any Jesus to save you.
Nor can any Jesus save you -
he was exploiting your situation." --- Osho

maleAnicka_ | 17 March 2008 - 6:58am

SkyPiercer wrote:

We have also the mathematic miracles in the book. Too much to quote them all. Too much to be a coincidence. Everything seems to be in the right place with a couple of stunning links between the verses.

What mathematic miracles?


__________________________

It is said human beings are complex. I say it's a complex challenge to be a human.

maledustybunny | 17 March 2008 - 7:43pm

I've seen this question asked many times when discussing the differences between biographies and autobiographies so I guess it applies just as much to God as it does to lesser mortals.

malelongload | 20 March 2008 - 2:34pm

justjayhere wrote:
Yes, the Bible has 100's of translations and in many languages but God's inspired basic message is intact. 2Timothy 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,


yes, and may I also add that there is none Holy, except for God. Anything written by a man claiming to be holy is just horsey doo doo. NOTE... the Bible was not written by anyone claiming to be Holy.


__________________________

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than to live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.

maleONE | 20 March 2008 - 11:07pm

Neither is the Gita or the Ramayana or the Upanishads or the Koran or the Dhammapada or the Torah or the Koran. Nobody ever makes claims to be holy who write these books. They are ordinary people with extraordinary visions. The people or even the disciples who write the stories never make claims to be holy or holier-than-thou. They are usually very simple people.
So tell me, which one is really written by God or which one is horsey doo doo? Or can it be that all of them are really horsey doo doo after all? Could it be that there really isn't any God up there and these stories were written by ordinary people about their own experiences, visions and knowledge? Maybe the whole idea of a 'written by God' or 'inspired by God' is just horsey doo doo?


__________________________

"Once you accept all your responsibilities in its totality,
you become mature.
You stop throwing tantrums and
you stop seeking messiahs.
Then there is no need for any Jesus to save you.
Nor can any Jesus save you -
he was exploiting your situation." --- Osho

malelongload | 21 March 2008 - 2:29pm

ONE wrote:
Neither is the Gita or the Ramayana or the Upanishads or the Koran or the Dhammapada or the Torah or the Koran.
So tell me, which one is really written by God or which one is horsey doo doo?

Which one has no mistakes? Which one has had many, many prophecies fulfilled accurately? Which one has a God that created me and loves me so much that He died for my sins? (sparing me from eternal punishment) Which one has a risen savior? The BIBLE!!


__________________________

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than to live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.

femaleema | 21 March 2008 - 4:17pm

@longload: what about Horus? seems like it has many common points with another son of God we all know.
Plus, of course Bible is the One and Only Divine Book for those who believe in it. But what about the others? Everyone whose religion has a sacred book will just say the same about it.

It's the greatness of diversity Smile


__________________________

\"There is no way to happiness...Happiness is the Way...\"(Buddha)

malelongload | 21 March 2008 - 8:39pm

ema wrote:
@longload: what about Horus? seems like it has many common points with another son of God we all know.
Plus, of course Bible is the One and Only Divine Book for those who believe in it. But what about the others? Everyone whose religion has a sacred book will just say the same about it.

It's the greatness of diversity Smile


Yes, you are right... many religions believe they are exclusively right. I am no different. I do believe there are compelling and unique things about Christianity. I believe that Jesus Christ took the punishment I deserved and died in my place. I believe that He conquered death and rose from the dead, and He is the living God that I TRY to serve.


__________________________

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than to live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.

maleONE | 22 March 2008 - 2:18am

:longload:
Why do other religious doctrines need to have some saviour who died on some cross and ressurected? So, Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world, big deal!! It is has not changed the way people are in the world. It has not made a big impact in these 2,000+ years. It has not created a mass consciousness of wellness, joy and peace.
What about the hindus, muslims and others? Just because they do not believe in your Jesus, they will suffer and be punished? They are living their life exactly as they want to. Why does your God have to put conditions on people's lives? Why can't he just accept humanity as they are and save them no matter how they are? If your God was really that of unconditional love he would be doing this.
No God or saviour is needed if you really decide to be happy and joyful at all times. A human being can live more wonderfully and joyfully without even thinking that they can sin or offend God. There are so many enlightened people in the world who have lived like this and fortunately, they are not even christians.
Years ago, when my friends and I were attending a seminar at a bible school, my friend declared "I am saved and I no longer commit sin. I cannot sin anymore. Do you know what happened? All the christians there were absolutely shocked and they started to argue and debate.
Imagine, being saved and yet there is some fear, some doubt, some resistence in enjoying life fully because you might do something that will cause you to sin or offend God. What kind of salavation is this if you cannot be totally free and responsible for your actions and your life?


__________________________

"Once you accept all your responsibilities in its totality,
you become mature.
You stop throwing tantrums and
you stop seeking messiahs.
Then there is no need for any Jesus to save you.
Nor can any Jesus save you -
he was exploiting your situation." --- Osho

malelongload | 22 March 2008 - 3:51am

ONE wrote:
:longload:
Why do other religious doctrines need to have some saviour who died on some cross and ressurected? So, Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world, big deal!! It is has not changed the way people are in the world. It has not made a big impact in these 2,000+ years. It has not created a mass consciousness of wellness, joy and peace.
What about the hindus, muslims and others? Just because they do not believe in your Jesus, they will suffer and be punished? They are living their life exactly as they want to. Why does your God have to put conditions on people's lives? Why can't he just accept humanity as they are and save them no matter how they are? If your God was really that of unconditional love he would be doing this.
No God or saviour is needed if you really decide to be happy and joyful at all times. A human being can live more wonderfully and joyfully without even thinking that they can sin or offend God. There are so many enlightened people in the world who have lived like this and fortunately, they are not even christians.
Years ago, when my friends and I were attending a seminar at a bible school, my friend declared "I am saved and I no longer commit sin. I cannot sin anymore. Do you know what happened? All the christians there were absolutely shocked and they started to argue and debate.
Imagine, being saved and yet there is some fear, some doubt, some resistence in enjoying life fully because you might do something that will cause you to sin or offend God. What kind of salavation is this if you cannot be totally free and responsible for your actions and your life?

Why does everyone need Jesus? The Bible says "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven, by which we must be saved"
Why can't He accept and save people as they are? The Bible says "for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"
Why can't we be responsible for our actions? The Bible clearly teaches that each of us IS responsible. Your friend was mistaken saying he couldn't sin anymore. As a christian, I can tell you from experience... I still can, and do sin. I do have freedom and joy because God is a God of love and forgiveness


__________________________

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than to live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.

maleONE | 22 March 2008 - 9:17am

:longload:
The bible says that there is no salvation except thru Jesus. But then it is also the bible that has created the concept of sin and redemption. So this God creates the disease and then provides the cure? It is just a trick to make people guilty and dependent on the bible and someone else. This is not true love. Unconditional love means you accept everyone and have no need to save anyone because nobody is ever lost or has sinned. Every person is having their own experiences and adventures in life. If you want to experience being lost and found that is upto you. It is not true at all.
Yah, God could not find a better way to save humanity except to shed blood and sacrifice a human life? There are millions of ways if only God had taken a single moment to think. Sacrificing somebody else is simply using somebody like a guinee pig. This means your God uses someone like a utility. What kind of love is that?
If each one is responsible for his own life, why should he depend on some Jesus to save him? He can do it by himself and its called self-intelligence. How can it be self-responsibility if you are dependent on someone else for your life survival and future after death? Why can't you just learn to forgive yourself and accept yourself so that you can also accept the failings and shortcomings of others?
If you are still capable of sinning then either the blood of Jesus is not sufficient to cover you or Jesus has the wrong blood type Smile


__________________________

"Once you accept all your responsibilities in its totality,
you become mature.
You stop throwing tantrums and
you stop seeking messiahs.
Then there is no need for any Jesus to save you.
Nor can any Jesus save you -
he was exploiting your situation." --- Osho

femalePrettyPeaceful | 7 May 2008 - 11:35am

longload wrote:
justjayhere wrote:
Yes, the Bible has 100's of translations and in many languages but God's inspired basic message is intact. 2Timothy 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,


yes, and may I also add that there is none Holy, except for God. Anything written by a man claiming to be holy is just horsey doo doo. NOTE... the Bible was not written by anyone claiming to be Holy.

WoooooHoooooo!!!!!!!!! Love your response, deseves merit


__________________________

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WITHOUT PRAYER IS LIKE COMPUTER HARDWARE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE!!!!!

femaleredwillie97 | 7 May 2008 - 11:49am

dustybunny wrote:
I've seen this question asked many times when discussing the differences between biographies and autobiographies so I guess it applies just as much to God as it does to lesser mortals.

Yep..it works for me..


__________________________

The best way to cheer yourself up...is to cheer somebody else up..
MT

malemichael_carey | 9 June 2008 - 9:42pm

How on earth can holy books that contradict one another all be of divine origin? Is God determined to confuse his creatures?

No one can believe in the divine inspiration of more than one scripture, and I should think that the mere fact that there are a number of them ought to clue one in to the likelihood that they are human creations, reverence for which turned into belief in their holiness and absolute truth.

We can still read them with reverence, surely, but we judge them by our own humane standards today, instead of looking to them for the standards we live by. At least, in the Western world. Belief in unerring divine truth is still causing lots of trouble elsewhere.

maleONE | 9 June 2008 - 11:07pm

Divine inspiration is needed by those who are unable to realize that they themselves are already divine.


__________________________

"Once you accept all your responsibilities in its totality,
you become mature.
You stop throwing tantrums and
you stop seeking messiahs.
Then there is no need for any Jesus to save you.
Nor can any Jesus save you -
he was exploiting your situation." --- Osho

femalePrettyPeaceful | 9 June 2008 - 11:15pm

ONE wrote:
Divine inspiration is needed by those who are unable to realize that they themselves are already divine.

That is only your belief ONE, as for the Christian, we don't consider ourselves divine, just blessed because we are loved by God, I would rather have God, then be divine.

Anyways, I am divine in some eyes! Laughing


__________________________

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WITHOUT PRAYER IS LIKE COMPUTER HARDWARE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE!!!!!

maleONE | 9 June 2008 - 11:50pm

yah, pp in my eyes you are already divine and blessed too Very happy


__________________________

"Once you accept all your responsibilities in its totality,
you become mature.
You stop throwing tantrums and
you stop seeking messiahs.
Then there is no need for any Jesus to save you.
Nor can any Jesus save you -
he was exploiting your situation." --- Osho

maleGrayWolf | 11 June 2008 - 12:03pm

longload wrote:
NOTE... the Bible was not written by anyone claiming to be Holy.
Can you substantiate this ie. authors name of each book of the bible?


__________________________

"On the sixth day God created man. On the seventh day, man returned the favour."