Burma cyclone toll climbs to nearly 22,500; Accepting aid problematic
"Myanmar's military government raised its death toll from Cyclone Nargis on Tuesday to nearly 22,500 with a further 41,000 missing, nearly all of them from a massive storm surge that swept into the Irrawaddy delta.
The United Nations' World Food Programme began doling out emergency rice in Yangon and the first batch of more than $10 million worth of foreign aid arrived from Thailand on Tuesday, but a lack of specialized equipment slowed distribution.
"The United Nations is asking the Burmese government to open its doors. The Burmese government replies: 'Give us money, we'll distribute it'. We can't accept that," Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner told parliament."
full story:
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asia/other/2008/05/07/155230/Myanmar%2Dcyclone.htm
*********
Later in the story reference is made to the "specialised equipment" lacking by Burmese officals as being a FORKLIFT. A freaking forklift!!! They don't even have basic items for an emergency kit and they have been trying to run a country. Well, I suppose we didn't need that to show their incompetence; we've seen them operate since 1988. That says it all.
So now I wonder if these circumstances will hasten the death of this regime. I wonder when we will hear more about Aung San Suu Kyi? Do you think the government will be forced to co-operate or that the doors to Burma will open, even if slightly, in the coming days and weeks? (Seems like it would need to be days, given the conditions; I think there are many people who can't hold out for weeks.)
Pictures in Rangoon:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7384111.stm
__________________________
From the sublime to the ridiculous is but one step--Napolean Bonaparte
Bookmark/Search this post with:
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
I heard and read estimations going up to 100.000 casualties. The 22.000 is official from Myanmar.
And... a miracle: France and US agree that there should be no financial aid.
__________________________
Daar is de lente, daar is de zon
bijna, maar ik denk dat ze weldra zal komen.
De fallus impudicus staat al in bloei
En de blaadjes krijgen bomen.
M'n vrouw en m'n kat zijn allebei krols
en de klokken vertrekken naar Rome
If the authorities inside Myanmar have chosen to turn the country into one of the most isolated states in the world let them sort it out. The civilised world is still trying to help those people that suffered in the Boxing Day Tsunami (not a million miles from there). Ask yourself the question, would North Korea have opened the doors to allow aid to get through without wanting something in return? I think not.
maranello, I see your frustration, but there are many Burmese outside Burma with families in there. And on top of that, it's fairly difficult to critisise poor relief efforts elsewhere and have such a cavalier attitude here. (Not you, I just mean in general.)
From:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7391535.stm
"'Currently Myanmar [Burma] has prioritised receiving emergency relief provisions and is making strenuous efforts to transport those provisions without delay by its own labours to the affected areas,'" it said.
'As such, Myanmar is not ready to receive search and rescue teams as well as media teams from foreign countries.'"
*********
Yeah, I bet it's not.
And:
"Dozens of aid experts are reported to be waiting for visas in neighbouring Thailand - but the Burmese embassy there has now closed for a public holiday until next Tuesday."
*********
Next effing Tuesday?! WTF? There ARE no hols at a time like this. If I ran my own country the Embassy staff would have their arses at work processing visas. And it's not like I am so much more caring than anybody else--most of the civilised world (which includes places we often don't include as part of the civilised world) would be trying to get people some aid.
These effs have some major bad karma coming their way.
__________________________
From the sublime to the ridiculous is but one step--Napolean Bonaparte
First:
That there are countries agreeing that no financial aid has to be/should be given is easy to understand:
1. You can save your money - and every country complains about money shortage in this times.
2. If you give no money to a dictatorship, your voters can't be angry with you.
Second:
No country can be forced to let in "unwelcomed persons", however that's defined.
Third:
After the Hurricane catastrophe in and around New Orleans many Europeans could not imaginge why it took the US rescue forces one full week to get there. So that is not only a Burmese Problem.
Fourth:
Maybe the NATO could establish a airlift system to bring goods into Burma even against Burmese's governments will. So they could show that they are not only good for destruction, but also for build up something. But this would also need a political discussion. Are foreign forces allowed to bring in themselves if a country don't want it? That could also be interpreted as an act of war....
__________________________
"Vor allem bewahrt Euch stets die Fähigkeit, jede Ungerechtigkeit, die irgendwo auf der Welt begangen wird, aufs Tiefste zu empfinden. " Che Guevara
Third:
After the Hurricane catastrophe in and around New Orleans many Europeans could not imaginge why it took the US rescue forces one full week to get there. So that is not only a Burmese Problem.
How about you check your facts and type this again with reality in mind Ducky? No need to make stuff up when the truth is quite easy to verify.
__________________________
***************
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and them misapplying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
Rubberduck you are correct,FOURTH!! I am sorry but i just did not understand..In a situation where you have a total disaster,govt gone people in total distress,yes, you go in and try to save as many as is possible because they too are human beings..But in myanmar the govt is intact and unchanged but also barely able to help,and totally unwilling to accept foreigners which means innocent people are not being assisted..I think no one has the right to let innocent people die because of politics..One time when the turkish tecton went crazy thousands of homes simply collapsed dead were everywhere,everywhere,,it was carnage,politics were thrown out the window and they begged for help ,and the world answered big,rescue teams,food tents medical supplies,blankets..did anyone look at your politics? your religion? human beings saved other human beings..We are all in this together!
when have the people ever criticised their govt for helping other folk in an emergency?
Third:
After the Hurricane catastrophe in and around New Orleans many Europeans could not imaginge why it took the US rescue forces one full week to get there. So that is not only a Burmese Problem.
I couldn't give over how the person in charge made a television interview about receiving no help to evacuate the elderly and behind him there were rows and rows of school buses.
Incompetence at the highest level. Scary!
A bit of pre-emptive relief Ed? May have gone a long way. The little fib in that note was that it took a week for help to arrive when it was there as the storm ended. Could it have been organized better? Sure. Could have been actually organized. But it was there.
__________________________
***************
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and them misapplying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
The burmese government is wonderful, they got alerted by India about the approaching cyclone on the morning 1st of May, does jack and shit of course, some 36 hours later it strikes and Burma gets wrecked totally. Burmese government still doesnt want any outside help apart from supplies, money, money, money, and more money. They'll get the money of course since theres zillions of retarded hippiebastards around happily giving their money to "charity", disasters can be such a lucrative business..
__________________________
frewurny glirt ptohtsm!
Well for one thing duck is close to right. it took a very long time untill us gave a green light for several goods and people to help.
Ed... I don't know about the specific case, but busses rarely drive on water.
It's not NATO's task to go to Burma, unless if Burma attacks a NATO country.
Building an air bridge into a disaster area needs support of the local gov and people. At least when the plan is to help people, and not to destroy some more.
Eye witnesses talk about many, many more casualties
__________________________
Daar is de lente, daar is de zon
bijna, maar ik denk dat ze weldra zal komen.
De fallus impudicus staat al in bloei
En de blaadjes krijgen bomen.
M'n vrouw en m'n kat zijn allebei krols
en de klokken vertrekken naar Rome
Well for one thing duck is close to right. it took a very long time untill us gave a green light for several goods and people to help.
Ed... I don't know about the specific case, but busses rarely drive on water.
It's not NATO's task to go to Burma, unless if Burma attacks a NATO country.
Building an air bridge into a disaster area needs support of the local gov and people. At least when the plan is to help people, and not to destroy some more.
Ed... I don't know about the specific case, but busses rarely drive on water.
It's not NATO's task to go to Burma, unless if Burma attacks a NATO country.
Building an air bridge into a disaster area needs support of the local gov and people. At least when the plan is to help people, and not to destroy some more.
Eye witnesses talk about many, many more casualties
Ducky isn't close to right at all. Aid was inbound at storm's end. PERIOD. As was emergency repairs. Remember the helo vids? Probably not as they don't fit your pre-defined scenario. And the busses could have gotten people out BEFORE the storm. But did they? No. Lay that at the feet on one person. Not the US.
__________________________
***************
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and them misapplying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
I know they (many) could get out before, but people never know what to expect, and the power of that storm changed.
__________________________
Daar is de lente, daar is de zon
bijna, maar ik denk dat ze weldra zal komen.
De fallus impudicus staat al in bloei
En de blaadjes krijgen bomen.
M'n vrouw en m'n kat zijn allebei krols
en de klokken vertrekken naar Rome
Ed... I don't know about the specific case, but busses rarely drive on water.
If i remember correctly this was...before...not after...
I know they (many) could get out before, but people never know what to expect, and the power of that storm changed.
Oh BULL! They were told to leave...they chose not to. The local government could have gotten most out, they chose to let their resources be lost. They were advised to leave...and stayed in a BOWL. Nothing about the power of this storm changed. It was an Atlantic hurricane. It was what they always are. It didn't even make landfall on New Orleans.Seems that your ability to focus on New Orleans and mention nothing of Alabama and Mississippi proves my point. All still means Ducky's post, that you agreed with, is a load of horse pucky.
I dare anyone to bring up that trash about man-made global warming again on this. For eith part of this discussion.
__________________________
***************
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and them misapplying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
===
"The United Nations is asking the Burmese government to open its doors. The Burmese government replies: 'Give us money, we'll distribute it'.
===
I Accept Myanmar's government saying coz we know what kind of troubles came with Tsunami Aids in Sri Lanka, Keep the countries security up for avoid those unnecessary Visitors.
__________________________
----- Space is cool, like to fly to end! -----
And let thousands die in the process. Fine idea. Nothing like re-labeling aid with you favorite local general's name to to make the dead feel good about their country.
__________________________
***************
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and them misapplying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
Maybe 'Ducky' wasn't exactly right. But one things for sure. The actual help they got in New Orleans was too few. A year after it was still a mess down there. I don't know why. I've read that it would be because Bush wouldn't care much, coz most people living there were anti-Bush. But I doubt Bush would be that cruel. Hopefully it was just a misjudge. But that would be very sloppy, which I can hardly imagine either.
Myanmar is something completely different which you actually can't compare. It's simply the damn Junta or whatever they're called.
__________________________
"If God wanted women to understand men, football would never have been created." - Roger Simon
Building an air bridge into a disaster area needs support of the local gov and people.
An important point you seem to be ignoring is that Burma's military government does not have the support of the local people--they reign by brute force and do not represent the needs or concerns of their consituency. If the local people were given voice, I DOUBT they would be refusing aid.
Something that exacerbates the problems of people in countries like this is that outsiders are so entranched in PC bullshit that their party lines contribute to the theft of voice for people in Burma (and other ocuntries).
Latest:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7394410.stm
Scholes is also correct: New Orleans and Burma aren't comparable.
__________________________
From the sublime to the ridiculous is but one step--Napolean Bonaparte
From:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7389576.stm
"A full six days after the cyclone slammed into this country, there is so much aid sitting on the borders; there are so many needy people. And the two are not getting together."
and
"One man said to me earlier in the week: 'When we had demonstrations last year the army were everywhere; where are they now?'"
The point is: What are the Burmese people going to say when it is widely known (if it isn't already) that the world wanted to help, tried to and even started to bring goods, but the Burmese government refused to let it in? Will they thank people like those who wanted to"respect" their country by not bringing in aid? They are already asking questions, as you can see by the words of the man above. Any *rationale* outsider can see that sitting around picking our noses or saying, "You don't want aid? Oh, OK" is the wrong thing to do.
__________________________
From the sublime to the ridiculous is but one step--Napolean Bonaparte
I know they (many) could get out before, but people never know what to expect, and the power of that storm changed.
It's common knowledge that New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen, and many people even were against rebuilding it because it is georaphically too vulnerable. The people who lived their knew they could expect the worst.
Moreover, local government fucked up. From what I understand planning and response works on a chain of comand system--local government needs to support itself and when it can no longer, then next level is summoned. The mayor of New Orleans and governor of Louisiana failed to prepare adequately, even on a basic level, for what they knew was coming.
And as far as Burma is concerned,I highly doubt any Burmese will be shooting at those attempting to provide relief, as happened in New Orleans.
__________________________
From the sublime to the ridiculous is but one step--Napolean Bonaparte
Maybe 'Ducky' wasn't exactly right. But one things for sure. The actual help they got in New Orleans was too few. A year after it was still a mess down there. I don't know why. I've read that it would be because Bush wouldn't care much, coz most people living there were anti-Bush. But I doubt Bush would be that cruel. Hopefully it was just a misjudge. But that would be very sloppy, which I can hardly imagine either.
Myanmar is something completely different which you actually can't compare. It's simply the damn Junta or whatever they're called.
Too few? Absolutely. On would ask WHY to that. Starting at e root. WHY were so man still there? WHY were the buses used? Emergency resources are staged in fairly appropriate amounts throughout the US.
Some in places (those crying loudest at the time) people should have been evacuated to. And it all goes back to New Orleans. Not The US gov't, Not Bush. Then those idiots re-elect the man that made it all happen. Correction...LET it go down the way it did.
NOW...there is an active attempt to stop needed aid. From the gov't. More only on the not comparable is all.
__________________________
***************
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and them misapplying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
After the Hurricane catastrophe in and around New Orleans many Europeans could not imaginge why it took the US rescue forces one full week to get there. So that is not only a Burmese Problem.
Well, USA still, after almost 3 years, haven't managed to sort out the problems after that hurrican. That is interesting..
To the Burmese problem. The pressure should be set on the shoulders of China. To end trade with the junta, till they open for aid to the needed ones. This is a job that must be done by EU and Russia. USA are not able to put any form of pressure on China.
Well, USA still, after almost 3 years, haven't managed to sort out the problems after that hurrican. That is interesting
Oh really? Name those problems rather than make a baseless,even if INTERESTING comment. Ten feel free to explain the responsibilities of all parties. THIS should be interesting.
__________________________
***************
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and them misapplying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
Even Iran managed to do better for it's people after such a nature catastrophe. Wrong people lived in the affected areas, exactly the same happening in Burma.
Oh yes. Mud hut vs rebuilding a city. Nice comparison. I'm not surprised you were unable to ACTUALLY name these problems. Or any of the responsibilities. Good for you to stick in more baseless bullshit though.
__________________________
***************
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and them misapplying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
Fraguru your statement was totally off balance..Mudbrick houses can be rebuilt in days mostly because when the walls go down,sure they kill people,but the bricks can immediately be reused..Why so many casualties?they build without foundations.. On the otherhand,a modern house with sewerage,water piping ,gas piping,quarter of a kilometer of electric wiring in its walls, i hope you begin to see the comparison...
Modern houses, for the poor people in USA? Haha, now I've heard that too.
More proof you know jack-poop of what you are trying to talk about.
__________________________
***************
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and them misapplying the wrong remedies." --Groucho Marx
I have seen this situation happen many times,foreign aid rotting on the docks..This is not a situation for the beurocracy..The blueprint exists!! Anyone ever heard of the berlin airlift..No forklifts?do it by hand ,or fly them in,what a load of cynical crap,its politics..