I think self-deception is not the same or necessarily leads to self-destruction.

I think however that certain aspects of religion can be labeled as self-deception.

To name a few: the worship of a deity, the belief in rituals, the belief that you have to take literally religious texts that have been written a few thousand years ago without considering the current realities, etc.

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others" ~ Groucho Marx

Only one who would be against religious beliefs would take this view. Anyone can be decieved in life, this doesn't mean they will self-destruct.

The un-inspirational behavior of others determines our willingness to believe their words. Their life and truths then become like wind, collecting dust in its passing. -lea

Fanatacism in anything could lead to self destruction,moderation in all things!

Read my signature. In my opinion, religion IS self-deception.

Or for those who are interested in the full quotation:

"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."

~Karl Marx

I cannot add anything else to that.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~ Albert Einstein

Thats the truth...

Why should religion be distress?? Does anyone else find marx incredibly condescending? Who today in numbers subscribe to his theories??

I have to correct you here. Reading more carefully would help immensely but I will explain it to you.

Religion is the expression of distress. To Marx, Religion was the opium of the people in the sense of Religion being the illusion of a sorrow-free happy-world it promised. Marx doesn't openly condem Religion here, but the need for religion. Religion is the deception concerning the real world surrounding you. If the world was a perfect place, nobody needed religion because the paradise would be on earth. Since it is not - because of several reasons - man needs religion. Marx asks for change, he asks for a fundamental revolution concerning the relations and proportions of production property. The rich who have everything were and still are sponsoring the church to make people believe a better world in the now and here cannot be achieved. Religion is the illusion of a perfect explanation, a promise "if you do that, you will be rewarded". Marx demands actions that will reward you now and will give everyone the same chance. Of course, the situation today isn't as grief as it was back then, but his teachings are still applying to nowadays.
Or as Marx said too:
"The rich would do anything for the poor, except getting off their backs."
I could explain further, then again, I feel like nobody is interested anyways, so I won't continue until asked for it.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~ Albert Einstein

We have all deceived ourselves in life, more than once. Sometimes, this can be destructive.

"Watch your step by the crowd of fanatics, while they kill in the name of applied mathematics"

I have to agree with you there, falling

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WITHOUT PRAYER IS LIKE COMPUTER HARDWARE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE!!!!!

Very general, true nonetheless.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~ Albert Einstein

Marx saw religion as an obstacle to pushing his own theories,so he begins by a presupposition that religious distress is widespread (unproven ) Then like certain others he goes on to rubbish what he wants but still based on the original presupposition,where was his evidence?
Comrade marx i am not religiously distressed none of my many friends are religiously distressed,,what is this hypothetical diatribe?first you tell me what to think,and then you come as a saviour..You could not save yourself,where today is communism??

Personalise it!! human beings are not utopian and even given the same chances ,the folk who will forge ahead will do just that.Just like in the animal kingdom humans change natural abilities come out regardless of race creed or colour..You have your top dogs,your underdogs,and a hell of a lot of dogs in the middle..You brought that remark about religious distress to us ,you presented it as fact!! who other than marx says it's fact??where is the evidence..??

I told you he wasn't talking about religious distress but you obviously cannot display the basic abilities of reading and understanding. If you don't WANT to understand I can't help you.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~ Albert Einstein

With religions the deception is that 'truth is out there'. Truth is in Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, etc. Trugh is in scriptures, beliefs, rituals, etc. Truth is in a God who is somewhere high up in heaven. Truth is in a heaven after death. Truth is in salvation thru belief in somebody else.
These deceptions tend to drag humans more and more away from the truth and the reality. Instead of focusing on life the way it is now, we are deceived into thinking that the experiences we have in life is a sin or a virtue. We are deceived into believing that we need to be dependent on something else (God, prayer, salvation, scriptures, church attendance and going to mecca).
Life is happening to everyone and is everywhere right now. Unfortunately, we look for God somewhere else instead of where she is....right here and right now.

"Once you accept all your responsibilities in its totality,
you become mature.
You stop throwing tantrums and
you stop seeking messiahs.
Then there is no need for any Jesus to save you.
Nor can any Jesus save you -
he was exploiting your situation." --- Osho

"Religion is the expression of distress" Your Quote,now you say the opposite!!
Religion,is the expression of distress.
Religion is the expression,of distress..Whichever way you want to look at it the operative words are religion and distress,from there you could easily say religion causes distress,or alternatively you could say,distress causes religion..Either way you still have your two operative words,religion and distress..The koreans call it brainwashing..

That's exactly what Marx is trying to say in different words. Bravo One. I couldn't have phrased it better. Then again, maybe I could have, but at the moment I just seem to lazy to do anything else than post quotes.

Religion is the deception to drag humans away from the distress they experience in the reality. Instead of focusing on the life it is now and to deal with it, people prefer to look forward into a world beyond this world, an illusion of paradise that will comfort them but also prevent them to do anything about the now and here.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~ Albert Einstein

TISKA WROTE Religion is the deception to drag humans away from the distress they experience in the reality. Instead of focusing on the life it is now and to deal with it, people prefer to look forward into a world beyond this world, an illusion of paradise that will comfort them but also prevent them to do anything about the now and here.[/quote]

Actually Tiska, the bible teaches us how to cope with day to day situations, yes we do look forward to the return of Jesus Christ and being with Him and it IS comforting. Also you will find in the bible that Jesus tells us not to worry about yesterday, it is gone, or tomorrow, but to focus on today. This is not a direct quote, as I don't have my bible open at the moment, but what is basically spoken.

And I will say it again, it is not about religion but a relationship with Christ

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WITHOUT PRAYER IS LIKE COMPUTER HARDWARE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE!!!!!

If I were to suggest, that between the Earth and Mars, there is a china teapot, revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion, provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed, even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

The reason organized religion merits outright hostility is that, unlike belief in Russell's teapot, religion is powerful, influential, tax-exempt and systematically passed on to children too young to defend themselves. Children are not compelled to spend their formative years memorizing loony books about teapots. Government-subsidized schools don't exclude children whose parents prefer the wrong shape of teapot. Teapot-believers don't stone teapot-unbelievers, teapot-apostates, teapot-heretics and teapot-blasphemers to death. Mothers don't warn their sons off marrying teapot-shiksas whose parents believe in three teapots rather than one. People who put the milk in first don't kneecap those who put the tea in first.

Again, I availed myself of the words of other people who have spent considerably more time with the subject. Heed the words of Bertrand Russell and Richard Dawkins.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~ Albert Einstein

First of all I don't know of the people you are speaking of. Teapots!! Sometimes one goes from the sublime to the ridiculous!

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WITHOUT PRAYER IS LIKE COMPUTER HARDWARE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE!!!!!

PrettyPeaceful wrote:

First of all I don't know of the people you are speaking of. Teapots!! Sometimes one goes from the sublime to the ridiculous!

Well, it doesn't surprise me you don't know them because they are - what you would probably call - the "fighters in the fore front of atheism". Both of them have written very interesting books. By the way I find it incredibly amusing that you find their sayings ridiculous. Because that's what the idea of god is. The idea of god is just as ridiculous as the idea of a tea pot in outer space. Now read again what they wrote, draw the parallel and think it over. Do me the favor, please.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~ Albert Einstein

Tiska, I didn't specify, who was going from the sublime to the ridiculous!

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WITHOUT PRAYER IS LIKE COMPUTER HARDWARE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE!!!!!

Maybe doing so would help? I find it extraordinary that you seem to blame me for trying to take your concerns serious. If you want clear answers, clear statements beforehand are immensely helpful.
Of course, if you do not want to further indulge into debate, you're not obliged to.
It would be a shame though, because then I would get the feeling you do not WANT to discuss with me.
Sadly, I do have this spleen of trying to make people understand, so I would greatly enjoy to be able to continue the debate - unless you choose not to.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~ Albert Einstein

So when did you become pyshic? and know what I am thinking, I enjoy disussions with people of normality.

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WITHOUT PRAYER IS LIKE COMPUTER HARDWARE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE!!!!!

Well, that's lovely. So, please clarify so we can get back to the discussion.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~ Albert Einstein

Tiska wrote:
"Religion is the deception to drag humans away from the distress they experience in the reality. Instead of focusing on the life it is now and to deal with it, people prefer to look forward into a world beyond this world, an illusion of paradise that will comfort them but also prevent them to do anything about the now and here."

What is this distress and what causes it? The distress is the sense of separation that one feels within himself and most of the time this is unconscious. Living in a state of duality we also feel a struggle and a sense of futility. We wonder what life is all about and why we are here. We want to find a deeper meaning to our existence.
Religion is a way of finding some comfort from the sense of distress. It is a way of not looking directly at the situation but finding someone else to depend on to save you from this distress. It does not really work because most of the time we just repress our feelings and it hides underneath. It is not removed or transformed.
Religion is indeed an illusion because instead of finding the solution within yourself (it is your life and you are responsible for your own mind, body, emotions and energy) you seek it somewhere else.
When a person is really and truly religious (this is a state of being not a belief system), he will never feel any distress, never seek for something in the future or depend on somebody else for his survival. Sure, there is interaction when it comes to work or family but there is no dependence. He can use anything without getting identified or stuck. Sure, he will plan something for the future but he will never be disappointed because there is no desire that what he plans has to be exactly the way he thinks. Everything is subject to change and he accepts change. A religious person lives in acceptance and let-go.
True religiousness is when you can live your life in the present moment at all times.
True religion is when have realized that you are God and the Master of your life and the only scripture that is written is that which you write yourself. The only one you love is yourself (everyone is a mirror of that love). The only one you worship is yourself (everyone is a mirror of that worship). There is only one God and that is you (everyone is a mirror of that godliness).

"Once you accept all your responsibilities in its totality,
you become mature.
You stop throwing tantrums and
you stop seeking messiahs.
Then there is no need for any Jesus to save you.
Nor can any Jesus save you -
he was exploiting your situation." --- Osho

A life without strive for improvement. Makes little sense to me.

How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter? --Woody Allen

A person can learn to be content with what he has and what he is, there isn't the need for improvement or gain!

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WITHOUT PRAYER IS LIKE COMPUTER HARDWARE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE!!!!!

Can you actually picture a world like that? Definitely not one I'd like to live in.

How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter? --Woody Allen

There would be a lot less strife. If the world was like that, you wouldn't last because you'd have nobody to argue with!

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WITHOUT PRAYER IS LIKE COMPUTER HARDWARE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE!!!!!

In a world like that every second person you happen to know, probably even you, would be dead for lack of antibiotics and similia. Think before you write anything, please.

How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter? --Woody Allen